Dave Strider [TG] turntechGodhead (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
chronologistics) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
assguardians2013-06-09 05:29 pm
chronologistics) wrote in assguardians2013-06-09 05:29 pm
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♥ one: post with your characters.
♠ two: respond to other people's characters with your characters.
♦ three: they tell you in detail what their character thinks of your character. TL;DR is encouraged; that's how this works.
♣ four; optional: discuss it with them if you want! Make a big chain of tl;dr if you're up to it.
♥ five: other people do the same thing to you! Maybe you even harvest your tl;dr to use in a CR chart later.
♠ six: keep checking back in so that no one is ever late!
(Shamelessly gakked from places.)
Dave Strider // Homestuck
there memes over its closin time
you dont have to go home but you cant stay here
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the number you have dialed has either been changed disconnected or is no longer in service
if you feel that you have received this message in error please check the number and try again
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you would never deprive me of my beauty sleep
thats just crazytalk
...
No, okay, let's do this. The hoofbeast ain't dead yet.
There are lots of complicated feels. Dave came into Asgard in a kind of ambiguous time post-touring the drunk Rose district, but pre-speaker crab; essentially, in a time where he was pretty much aware that their relationship was drowning in the shitter. I've said it before, but in a conversation with a future Dave once, he basically described his moment in the timelie as: basically if youre the trainwreck then im from before said traiwreck and i can already see the plume of smoke from here In his mind, they had already broken up, and he was still somewhat -- though not necessarily in a debilitating way? -- bitter about it. Which made her coming into Asgard difficult, because she was from even further before the trainwreck, and Dave is anything but a proponent of spoilers. So, naturally, he continues on like nothing happened and like he doesn't think about how long Tz may or may not have been banging the hateclown.
-- which, in retrospect, he knows was not the right thing to do. I think on some level, he wanted to see if he could give her a second (first) chance. On a deeper level, I think he wanted to see if he could "save" her (for a lack of a better term?) from... herself?
(I do headcanon that there was probably a period of time on the meteor that he did try really hard with pitiful interventions which mostly consisted of drawing comics to keep her from letting her life spiral out of control, and so naturally his first instinct is to try to do just that (again?) in Asgard.)
But it's starting to dawn on him how it isn't fair to him or her to keep trying. It's not that he doesn't like her, or doesn't think she's pretty cool, or that he doesn't want to be her friend -- it's just that the ship has sailed, and the bird needs to spread its wings.
(That they banged, on that note, makes him feel incredibly guilty. Not because he regrets it, he doesn't, but because it makes him feel like a goddamn hypocrite.)
Beyond that, though he would never, ever, ever admit it out loud, he has a very, very strong appreciation for her. He would not have been able to get anywhere in the Game without her help, and he fully recognizes that. In an ironic sort of way, too, she provides a kind of voice of confidence for him, being one of the few people who can sniff out his insecurities, and who's not afraid to call him out for them. She's his partner in crime, and no matter what they'll always have shitty comics to draw.
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YOU 4R3 SUCH 4 D1CK >:|
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YOU S41D 1T YOURS3LF: TH3 SH1P H4S S41L3D, YOUV3 4LR34DY MOV3D ON
SO YOUR3 STR1NG1NG M3 OUT W1THOUT 3V3N T3LL1NG M3 WHY YOUR3 SUDD3NLY 4LL D1ST4NT
BUT TH3 TRUTH 1S NOTH1NG 1 DO 1S GO1NG TO M4TT3R TO YOU
YOUV3 PUT M3 1N 4 C4TCH-22 4ND 1M NOT 3V3N F4R 3NOUGH 1N TH3 T1M3L1N3 TO UND3RST4ND WH4T JUST H4PP3N3D!!!
1 H4V3 TH3 OPPORTUN1TY TO NOT FUCK 1T UP W1TH YOU
3V3N THOUGH 1 DONT KNOW 1 FUCK3D 1T UP 4T 4LL
BUT NOTH1NG 1 TRY 1S GO1NG TO CH4NG3 4NYTH1NG 3V3N 1F 1 S3R1OUSLY WORK TO B3 4 B3TT3R P3RSON 4ND 4 B3TT3R M4T3SPR1T
YOUV3 4LR34DY M4D3 UP YOUR M1ND
SO WH4T
1M TRY1NG FOR NOTH1NG
GR4SP1NG 4T STR4WS L1K3 TH3R3S SOM3TH1NG ST1LL TH3R3 TO GR4SP 4T
MY R3L4T1ONSH1P 1S OV3R 4ND 1M ST1LL 1N TH3 HON3YMOON PH4S3 4ND 1 DONT TH1NK YOU UND3RST4ND HOW MUCH 1T HURTS TO B3 1N TH1S S1TU4T1ON
1M NOT 3MOT1ONL3SS YOU KNOW
JUST B3C4US3 YOUV3 N3V3R S33N M3 CRY
JUST B3C4US3 OUR 1NT3R4CT1ONS 4R3 USU4LLY 4BOUT YOUR F33L1NGS
JUST B3C4US3 YOU G3T FR34K3D OUT 3V3RY T1M3 1 4CT L1K3 MOR3 TH4N SOM3 M4N1C DR34M TROLL G1RL
DO3SNT M34N YOU C4N JUST TR34T M3 L1K3 YOUR BULLSH1T WONT ST1NG
1M NOT STUPID, D4V3
1 KNOW SOM3TH1NGS UP 4ND TH3 MOR3 YOU H1D3 FROM M3 TH3 WORS3 1T G3TS
M4YB3 YOUR V3RS1ON OF T3R3Z1 DO3SNT C4R3 4BOUT YOU 4S MUCH 4S 1 DO
1 GU3SS TH4T H4PP3NS 1N R3L4T1ONSH1PS SOMET1M3S
4ND 1M SORRY TH4T SH3-- 1 HURT YOU 1N OUR FUTUR3
BUT TH4T 1SNT OUR FUTUR3 4NYMOR3
YOU C4NT PUN1SH M3 FOR TH1NGS 1 H4V3NT DON3 Y3T
1M NOT P3RF3CT 4ND 1 DONT HOLD 4NY 1LLUS1ONS TH4T 1 4M BUT 4S HORR1BL3 OF 1 P3RSON 4S 1 4M 1M D4R1NG TO TH1NK TH4T 1 DONT D3S3RV3 TH1S SH1T
(BUT WHO KNOWS M4YB3 1 DO)
4NYW4Y
TH3 SH1TT13ST P4RT 4BOUT 4LL OF TH1S 1S
YOU KNOW TH4T TH1S 1S HOW 1T 1S
YOU KNOW WH4T YOUR3 DO1NG
BUT YOU 4R3NT DO1NG 4NYTH1NG TO CH4NG3 1T
W3R3 BOTH GO1NG TO G3T HURT YOU KNOW
H4H4
1 S4Y TH4T L1K3 W3 4R3NT 4LR34DY HURT1NG >:\
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fuck yes
where making it
TRANSPIRE
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Strap yourself in, it's going to be a long fucking ride...
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So... let's see if I can actually put it all into words.
I've always been of the opinion that Dave has a very, very, very deep respect for Davesprite. (where will you go) All narcissism jokes aside... if he has an appreciation for Terezi and how she somehow has this uncanny ability to pick him up off of the stupid ground and keep him moving forward, he has a deeper appreciation for Davesprite and for what he had to do in order to fix the timeline. To him, that was a huge sacrifice. (To be fair, in early canon through the earlier months on the meteor, I headcanon that he hadn't really understood the gravity of it? Or, rather, it's something he's come to understand better as he's gotten older.) It's funny, too, because although Davesprite was him at one point, on some level, Dave just doesn't think he has the brass balls to have done something like that. I mean, yeah, sure, he'll bail everyone out, and he'll do what he needs to in order to get shit done (because that's what he does, has always done, and always will do) but it's weirdly different, somehow?
(Those are Dave's own issues shining through, don't mind them.)
At the end of the day, it can all be summed up by simply saying: he knows he wouldn't have been able to make it out of the Game alive without Davesprite. And well, maybe it's a Knight thing -- but he'll forever feel, on some intrinsic level, indebted for it?
Their session needed Dave. Dave needed Davesprite. Or something poetic like that. Anyway.
So on one level, Davesprite represents what he doesn't think he could be (but probably could, if he didn't sell himself so short). On another level, Davesprite also represents what he knows could happen if he fails. And while you think it would anger him, it actually, in a really weird and twisted way, drives his appreciation and respect for Davesprite even deeper. I hesitate to say it like this, but if there's any way that I could get my point across: it's very similar -- though not quite the same -- to how he feels about Bro, minus the smuppets and plush rumps.
(Don't ask me how that is a thing that can even happen.)
Dave is so stupidly, stupidly protective over him. Not in the sense that he doesn't think that Davesprite couldn't handle himself, because he knows that Davesprite can. It's more like... you had my back, now I have yours.
In your essay, you mentioned a visceral sort of trust -- and I think that's what I'm trying to get at here? And I have to smile at it because I find it funny that it's almost like they mirror each other in that respect.
Anyway.
As of late...
You know, it's hard to hide bullshit from yourself. Dave doesn't need an extensive looksee or conversation to know when something's amiss. I think, on a certain level, Dave knows what Davesprite's experiencing? Definitely not exactly, because he's Alpha, but he understands the logistics enough -- and he understands how he feels about said logistics.
And it's hard. He knows it's hard. Even if he doesn't really know, because he's never had to carry that burden, but even then... that circles back to his own deep appreciation for him.
Anyway, he knows bullshit when he sees it. I think a part of him is dismayed because he knows that he's disappointed Davesprite (re: Terezil, but perhaps not how badly?) and because he can see his own patterns in Davesprite's actions. If he ever somehow learned of Davesprite's existential crises, you can imagine that he would want to start punching in faces and taking goddamn names.
It's hard to say what Dave actually considers Davesprite. Honestly, I kind of feel like he just refuses to overthink it. Davesprite is Davesprite. And, yeah, they might have once been the same person before -- but they aren't now, and they have their own individual sets of memories and experiences that keep them separate and make them who they are. So if he had to put a label on it, he'd imagine it's kind of what it would be like to have a twin brother, but given how fucked up their ectofamily is he'd prefer to just keep the whole thing out of sight and out of mind.
And holy crap I could probably keep on going but I'll just. Shut it off here.
Yeah...
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But yeah, the way any version of Dave views himself and his accomplishments is weird. Because Davesprite will say straight up what he did wasn't even a real sacrifice, it's just something he had to do, even if he chose it. And he'd never question if Dave would do the same, in his position? That's why he trusts him unfailingly in that sense. Despite all the identity issues, I think coming back to help Dave really made Davesprite realize exactly what he was capable of.
I wrote in a thread not too long ago something to the effect that the ones who really protect the sanctity of the timelines are the doomed. And I think while Dave might not have grasped that at first, it's something he becomes increasingly aware of over time? idk.
Also, ironically, I just wrote in another tl;cr response that Davesprite has never really paralleled his relationship with Dave to twins. But maybe they'd consider it if they both actually had time to sit down and think, now they're around each other in a capacity where one isn't future Dave and the other isn't past Dave? It's weird shit, man.
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In retrospect, though, I think it's good when they have slightly different voices? Mostly because they start out sounding the same when they first meet, but then canon experience and timeskips ages them differently? So the differences in their voices/actions/thoughts/the way they process things makes a lot of sense; at least to me.
I meant to put in my novel above that I think the thing that Dave fails to take into effect is just how experiences will change you -- you being the ubiquitous you -- and that, yeah, if it were him that spent so many months in the game with plans to go back and bail everyone out, that he would be entirely capable of it... because he did do it. So Davesprite's not wrong that Dave would have done the same thing (because), Dave's just wrong in that he thinks he wouldn't have been capable? This is starting to get confusing, heh.
Oh, in the beginning, I headcanon he had no fucking clue about the reality of doomed timelines. I think the concept unsettled him -- I mean, you have to dispose of your own body -- but the only way he could keep going was if he just pointedly didn't think about it. The coinflip sort of started to nudge him in that direction, but it wasn't until some time after life started to fall into routine on the meteor that he started to fully grasp it. (There are a lot of things that happened on the meteor that I headcanon really made him grow up, but those things are neither here nor there.) Anyway, there were a lot of punched walls during this time, if you know what I mean. A lot of punched walls, and a lot of bruised fingers. I sort of feel like his knuckles are probably a little more knobbly than Davesprite's now, from punching all the damn walls.
In Asgard, he tends to not think about it. I think it has to do with his own tenacity to just get shit done; can't do that if you're too busy holding yourself back. I'm waiting for it to start sinking in though.
Aha, yeah. That part didn't occur to me until he broke up the fight between Dirk and Davesprite; the way he did it was almost naturally in defense of Davesprite, and something about that was very striking to me. I hadn't expected it at all. Anyway, Dave would never admit to even thinking about maybe paralleling their relationship to twins, mostly because they already have an ectotwin and partly because it sounds stupidly sentimental. But it's not something that I can't see happening at all?
(He'd call Davesprite the older twin.)
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Oh yeah, I think it's good they sound different. Though I admit it was weird for me when I threaded with my Dave and realized how distinct, especially since I hadn't made a conscious effort to distinguish between them. Which I think speaks volumes for how drastically they've diverged.
But whoops, I actually wasn't disagreeing with you on that point, re: Dave and what he's capable of. It was more Davesprite's view on it? Which is kind of self-depreciating and doesn't fully encompass the gravity of what he did, mandatory or not.
And three years on a meteor while watching everyone fall apart around you has that effect, I think. That's a lot of time for introspection, man. Davesprite meanwhile got to contemplate how long he had until he died.
When Dave dropped between Dirk and Davesprite, the fact he kept his back to Davesprite struck me as bizarrely poignant. Because Davesprite immediately caught that Dave was protecting him and that kind of sparked a weird panic, because isn't it supposed to be the other way around? There was a moment of you shouldn't have done that, but the gesture was...sentimental, almost? It is very much something they'd do for Rose, I think.
Dave is more likely to draw twin conclusions than Davesprite, though, just because Davesprite is so far from considering them equal in importance. Which is kind of ironic, because...older twin.
...I actually headcanon he's probably a good 10 months, 25 days older than Dave, thanks to all the time travel he did in the doomed timeline. Mostly because of that line he gave John about hopping around on red hot gears and i-beams for like a year. It's just weirdly precise after he says four months to Rose and, as a Time player, I don't think he'd exaggerate about that.
I also don't think he ever told Rose how much time traveling he did after a while.no subject
Not just diverged, but grew up, I think? At any rate, the divergence is what makes it easy for Dave to look at Davesprite as a separate person. Mine, at least, has a very layered way that which he looks upon doomed timelines. In his dream, Naminé had pointed out that he thinks about them a lot -- ironic considering he didn't talk to her about doomed timelines until after the dream event -- and I do headcanon that he did a lot as the years went by. It's occurred to him that he doesn't have the same memories as the dead Daves, and that further drives home that they're separate people? At least, that's the simplified nutshell version of it, it's a little more complex than that.
Oh god, that surprised me so much. At first I thought he'd just sit back and watch it unfold until things got too hairy, then he'd mosey on in there and break it up like some kind of ref, but then I actually started typing and what I ended up typing was not what I had planned. I hesitate to say he was angry, really, but he was definitely bristly because... stupidly protective.
(And sentimental. Shhh.)
And yes. Yes, yes, yes on the Rose front. God, he misses Rose so much.
..... I like this headcanon. I like this headcanon a lot. I originally thought 8 months and 12 days, but for some reason I like the 10 months and 25 days better.
Also agreed. Agreed so hard.no subject
I also think Davesprite is a huge exception to the doomed Dave clause. Like this is just personal headcanon and obviously I don't expect anyone to subscribe to things like this—it's just there to explain where I'm coming from—but regardless of how many doomed selves Dave had to pitch outside the two shown in canon, I don't think any of them lasted long. Most of them would have occurred after Jade entered, so the session was on a timer. It's very different from Aradia's experience where the troll session took almost a month, because the kids' lasted only a single day. And, weirdly, I think it's because Davesprite's situation was so exceptional that he became so important to Dave's success. If that makes sense, in the weird paradox space kind of way. So...he's really the only Dave who had a chance to grow and change and become a separate person. Though it's still probably disconcerting for Dave in the same way, since it still amounts to so many different people with different circumstances who he could have been, but fate dictated they stack up as corpses instead. It's a very physical representation of his choices.
tl;dr I agree and wrote all that for no reason at all.
Dave interfering kind of made me realize something really weird, though. Because Davesprite...doesn't want to strife with Dave or Dirk? Which is a fucking odd epiphany. I mean, Striders. I don't think he'd even want to strife with Bro, if we had one, because that feels like something from another lifetime. Which it technically was, because he was still Dave then.
It isn't so much he'd turn down a challenge, but it definitely isn't as prominent for him. He also has far less of a problem with absconding, as proven with Dirk. idk, with Dave, it's probably because fighting himself is just too fucking bizarre and maybe kind of pointless, especially when he's supposed to protect him. Dirk, maybe he's worried it'll make him conflate kidbro with Bro? He was so reluctant to engage Dirk in that thread and I couldn't figure out why; it was partially because of the mood and holding his ground had an inherent danger to it, but he even avoided it in his intro thread. Whereas Dave just fucking went for it. It might have to do with the way he works from the sidelines, rather than charging in from the front.
Rambles aimlessly, idefk.
Davesprite missed Rose a lot and then he had her here and now she's gone again and that makes him miss her even more. He is kind of pissed about that. And I totally picked 10 months and 25 days because arc numbers. The alternative was 11 months and 11 days, but I think the former fits better.
I have all this doomed timeline headcanon and I don't know where it came from.
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Yes. Yes to all of this. I agree with all of it. From Davesprite being the exception to the doomed Dave clause to the doomed timelines not lasting very long. Furthermore, yes to how it's a physical representation of his choices.
SEE: simplified nutshell version of things.No, I totally get this. The older my Dave gets the less inclined he is to go for a strife? I mean, he'll do it -- the first thing he did when he saw Dirk was make him chase him all over the place -- but there isn't as hair-triggery a response? I think it has to do with how much time has passed without Bro; the hero-worship starts to fade, and he starts to form his own ideas. Not that Bro is any less important (if anything, he's more important now?) but more that he's growing into his own.
It might just be me who plays him like that, I don't know.
Anyway, it makes sense. I swear to god, him just fucking going for it will get him killed one day.... Oh wait...
Because. Doomed timelines. Also Davesprite. Also Dave. Also just Homestuck in general?
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I fucking swear, if Davesprite dies because Dirk's death gets it into his head that he should just throw caution to the wind and throw down with the Condesce, I am going to facepalm so hard.
This is probably what's going to happen.But, god, yeah. Homestuck. Though I think the dream threads forced a lot of it into detail, because of the setups I used.
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[She knows he's got plenty of them to go around, but rude. She can loiter if she wants to, thank you very much.]
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